Brian Stone 0:03
Hello, and welcome to The Buzz, a Bank Automation News podcast. My name is Brian Stone, and I’m the Associate Editor at Bank Automation News. Joining me today is Antonio Soares, co-founder and CEO at Dock. Antonio discusses what banks can learn from embedded finance companies, why these companies may have better relationships with customers than banks do. And the ways embedded finance companies can assist with financial inclusion around the globe.Antonio Soares 0:31
I do believe I believe every time you talk about payments, cell, this is not more a excellent thing from a traditional companies like bank. So nowadays, with all technology and all regulation and all the legislation in every country advancing to democratize payments, so this is turning very easy and in more less complex to delivery payments in any kind of company. So if you look for Brazil, you have like an instant payments promoted by central bank. In general country, regulators are looking to promote this competitiveness and embedded finances the best way to delivery payments and delivery banking to the final customer.Brian Stone 1:28
Is financial inclusion through embedded finance something that is sort of an international, I guess, priority? Or are there areas of the US that are still included in that,

Antonio Soares 1:39
I think, look at Embedded Financial has made it possible for companies regardless of size, area or segment, to offer financial services. So these includes any company and water, anyplace in the ward. I think the best point here is these companies, they really know their final customers, the retailers, restaurants, the sales director, companies that they know their customers. So basically, I do believe that this is a phenomenon. That is, of course, when you look at Latin America, you have less financial inclusion. So there is more, more left center opportunity at 10 America. But I do believe that is something that is applicable not only for Latin America, but other geographies, like us, or Europe,

Brian Stone 2:34
in general, banks can tend to have very formal relationships with their customers, in what ways is embedded finance sort of different from that?

Antonio Soares 2:45
I think embedded finance. So when you have like a retailer, or when you have a company that knows your business, if you’re a farmer, if you were a small business, a small restaurant, and you have are your beverage company that knows you better than your bank. So basically, banks will be part of the ecosystem, because they they know how to landing, they know how to give credit, they have all these trip data and all the regulation. But I do believe that this will be more kind of triadic relationship, you have a company that is embedded finance from a lot of companies, not only banks, but insurance companies or other services that fit in their final client. So what can

Brian Stone 3:42
embedded finance companies do to build trust? Specifically, you know, if you want to speak to this, that maybe a bank can’t,

Antonio Soares 3:52
I think it will look for a customer of a retailer and so this retailer, they know you better than your bank, so they know exactly how many times you go to their stores, what you’re buying etc. And when he with this data is possible to understand how bad customer years financial products and offer customized products for for them. So these this, this proceed Mutti is a strength to do business and retain customers. This is the main difference between someone that is in the field together with the camera, together with the customer. That’s someone that is building product for the customer. So basically, I do believe that these personalities is is the strength to the business and becoming increasingly part of their customers lives. So that’s why I do believe that embedded finance will deliver better services for the final customer.

Brian Stone 4:58
Is there a company or maybe In a couple of companies that you see taking the leap in either the, you know, the embedded finance space that currently isn’t, you know, one of the large players,

Antonio Soares 5:11
I think the most common now being that in finance, nowadays, we can talk about retailers. So they are creating their own wallet and their own means of payments or also internal payments. And they, in some cases, they create a kind of their own currents. And I do believe that now, the consumer goods industry will restart to, to look for embedded finance as a great opportunity, not only for operational efficiencies, but also to understand more their final clients.

Brian Stone 5:52
So do you think we’ll ever get to a stage where, let’s say an embedded finance company, has a larger contingent of trust from their customers versus say, you know, you can use a bank of any size, you can look at the largest ones, you can look at a mid size, you could look at a credit, local credit union, do you think we’re ever gonna get to a stage where the embedded finance company has more trust from their customers than say, like a bank would?

Antonio Soares 6:21
Yeah, I don’t believe you mentioned, like the, the credit Corp Corp. So if you look for these segments, and then you put someone that knows exactly about their business, like agriculture, or restaurant, or retailers, this is because you have someone that is speaking their language, you have someone that knows their real business problem, and someone that is aligned with their business. Basically, when you do embed a final there is a very interesting difference here, between traditional financial services products. When you create financial services, a brother, like a credit card, or a loan, you are looking for product profitability, when you’re delivering embedded finance, you are looking for increase efficiency of your client base, plus how to make my client business sell more, how to make my client business be more efficient. So these will build more trust and embedded finance are not companies are not just plugging in just one bank, they can offer service from 234 banks, and all the companies that they want, actually, they’re always looking for the best service for their clients.

Brian Stone 7:52
Do you feel like customers maybe in the future will feel that they have? I guess, a closer maybe, maybe not one on one, but a closer relationship than they would at say, like a large financial institution, for example?

Antonio Soares 8:07
Yes, I do believe in this. Actually, I think we, we had, we had these movement from if you go back, remember the relationship that everyone has, with their banks, with their manager, banks, because it was someone that in you get you dressed. And now that you digitalize all the banks, you don’t have someone that that person, your manager in the branch and etc. And people looks for these trust relationships. And, of course, this model does not work anymore, because it’s not possible to have a lot of brands, a lot of managers and the embedded finance will bring it back in no other way. Because you have someone that it’s a kind of his MO, he can freely you as with a lot of specific with a lot of individualization. And that’s I do believe that in the future, the majority of the relationship with the banking relationship would be with embedded finance companies. When you look for geographies, like Latin America, where financial services are not so penetrated in the population, embedded finance is a way to speed up financial inclusion in those regions and not only financial inclusion, but also deliver more right credit for people that want to start their business that want to to create something that want to create value. I I really do believe that embedded finance could change the board.

Brian Stone 9:55
You’ve been listening to the buzz, a bank automation news podcast, please follow All of us on Twitter and LinkedIn and as a reminder you can rate this podcast on your platform of choice be sure to visit us at Bank automation news.com

Brian Stone 0:03
Hello, and welcome to The Buzz, a Bank Automation News podcast. My name is Brian Stone, and I’m the Associate Editor at Bank Automation News. Joining me today is Antonio Soares, co-founder and CEO at Dock. Antonio discusses what banks can learn from embedded finance companies, why these companies may have better relationships with customers than banks do. And the ways embedded finance companies can assist with financial inclusion around the globe.Antonio Soares 0:31
I do believe I believe every time you talk about payments, cell, this is not more a excellent thing from a traditional companies like bank. So nowadays, with all technology and all regulation and all the legislation in every country advancing to democratize payments, so this is turning very easy and in more less complex to delivery payments in any kind of company. So if you look for Brazil, you have like an instant payments promoted by central bank. In general country, regulators are looking to promote this competitiveness and embedded finances the best way to delivery payments and delivery banking to the final customer.Brian Stone 1:28
Is financial inclusion through embedded finance something that is sort of an international, I guess, priority? Or are there areas of the US that are still included in that,

Antonio Soares 1:39
I think, look at Embedded Financial has made it possible for companies regardless of size, area or segment, to offer financial services. So these includes any company and water, anyplace in the ward. I think the best point here is these companies, they really know their final customers, the retailers, restaurants, the sales director, companies that they know their customers. So basically, I do believe that this is a phenomenon. That is, of course, when you look at Latin America, you have less financial inclusion. So there is more, more left center opportunity at 10 America. But I do believe that is something that is applicable not only for Latin America, but other geographies, like us, or Europe,

Brian Stone 2:34
in general, banks can tend to have very formal relationships with their customers, in what ways is embedded finance sort of different from that?

Antonio Soares 2:45
I think embedded finance. So when you have like a retailer, or when you have a company that knows your business, if you’re a farmer, if you were a small business, a small restaurant, and you have are your beverage company that knows you better than your bank. So basically, banks will be part of the ecosystem, because they they know how to landing, they know how to give credit, they have all these trip data and all the regulation. But I do believe that this will be more kind of triadic relationship, you have a company that is embedded finance from a lot of companies, not only banks, but insurance companies or other services that fit in their final client. So what can

Brian Stone 3:42
embedded finance companies do to build trust? Specifically, you know, if you want to speak to this, that maybe a bank can’t,

Antonio Soares 3:52
I think it will look for a customer of a retailer and so this retailer, they know you better than your bank, so they know exactly how many times you go to their stores, what you’re buying etc. And when he with this data is possible to understand how bad customer years financial products and offer customized products for for them. So these this, this proceed Mutti is a strength to do business and retain customers. This is the main difference between someone that is in the field together with the camera, together with the customer. That’s someone that is building product for the customer. So basically, I do believe that these personalities is is the strength to the business and becoming increasingly part of their customers lives. So that’s why I do believe that embedded finance will deliver better services for the final customer.

Brian Stone 4:58
Is there a company or maybe In a couple of companies that you see taking the leap in either the, you know, the embedded finance space that currently isn’t, you know, one of the large players,

Antonio Soares 5:11
I think the most common now being that in finance, nowadays, we can talk about retailers. So they are creating their own wallet and their own means of payments or also internal payments. And they, in some cases, they create a kind of their own currents. And I do believe that now, the consumer goods industry will restart to, to look for embedded finance as a great opportunity, not only for operational efficiencies, but also to understand more their final clients.

Brian Stone 5:52
So do you think we’ll ever get to a stage where, let’s say an embedded finance company, has a larger contingent of trust from their customers versus say, you know, you can use a bank of any size, you can look at the largest ones, you can look at a mid size, you could look at a credit, local credit union, do you think we’re ever gonna get to a stage where the embedded finance company has more trust from their customers than say, like a bank would?

Antonio Soares 6:21
Yeah, I don’t believe you mentioned, like the, the credit Corp Corp. So if you look for these segments, and then you put someone that knows exactly about their business, like agriculture, or restaurant, or retailers, this is because you have someone that is speaking their language, you have someone that knows their real business problem, and someone that is aligned with their business. Basically, when you do embed a final there is a very interesting difference here, between traditional financial services products. When you create financial services, a brother, like a credit card, or a loan, you are looking for product profitability, when you’re delivering embedded finance, you are looking for increase efficiency of your client base, plus how to make my client business sell more, how to make my client business be more efficient. So these will build more trust and embedded finance are not companies are not just plugging in just one bank, they can offer service from 234 banks, and all the companies that they want, actually, they’re always looking for the best service for their clients.

Brian Stone 7:52
Do you feel like customers maybe in the future will feel that they have? I guess, a closer maybe, maybe not one on one, but a closer relationship than they would at say, like a large financial institution, for example?

Antonio Soares 8:07
Yes, I do believe in this. Actually, I think we, we had, we had these movement from if you go back, remember the relationship that everyone has, with their banks, with their manager, banks, because it was someone that in you get you dressed. And now that you digitalize all the banks, you don’t have someone that that person, your manager in the branch and etc. And people looks for these trust relationships. And, of course, this model does not work anymore, because it’s not possible to have a lot of brands, a lot of managers and the embedded finance will bring it back in no other way. Because you have someone that it’s a kind of his MO, he can freely you as with a lot of specific with a lot of individualization. And that’s I do believe that in the future, the majority of the relationship with the banking relationship would be with embedded finance companies. When you look for geographies, like Latin America, where financial services are not so penetrated in the population, embedded finance is a way to speed up financial inclusion in those regions and not only financial inclusion, but also deliver more right credit for people that want to start their business that want to to create something that want to create value. I I really do believe that embedded finance could change the board.

Brian Stone 9:55
You’ve been listening to the buzz, a bank automation news podcast, please follow All of us on Twitter and LinkedIn and as a reminder you can rate this podcast on your platform of choice be sure to visit us at Bank automation news.com